Diana Tahiri was born in 1970. She is a musician and worked as a music education teacher for several years. She is a human rights activist and a part of the civil sector. She has also worked as a translator.
The interview was recorded in 2020.
EMRAH REXHEPI: Good evening! I am Emrah Rexhepi from Peace Action and as part of the process of collecting life stories for ‘Dealing with the Past’, I have the honor to speak to Diana Tahiri. Diana, I want to thank you for accepting to speak to me. I would kindly ask you introduce yourself and tell us about yourself at the beginning.
DIANA TAHIRI: Thank you for your consideration Emrah. My name is Diana Tahiri. I am 49 years old. I am a mother of a 19-year-old girl. By profession I am a musician. For many years I have worked as primary school music teacher. I have done many other things too, and for the last 15-20 years I am a translator from the Macedonian language to Albanian, Albanian to Macedonian, English to Albanian and Macedonian and Serbian and vice-versa.
Otherwise I am also an activist… I want to call myself an activist for human rights. I think I have been active enough and I still continue to be. I also work in an organization for… in a nongovernmental organization for human rights, and etc.
Injustice in life bothers me a lot, in every aspect. In my private life, I am engaged a lot in children’s rights, their wellbeing, as well as the wellbeing of women in our society. That’s all about me.
ER: At the beginning I would like to talk about the period of the independence of Macedonia. Do you remember that period, and how have you experienced it?
DT: For sure. I was very young back then. I think that somewhere before the independence, I was 20 years old then. I remember that I was returning by train from my father’s birthplace, in Serbia. I went by train and I returned by train. Meaning that I went to Yugoslavia, when it was Yugoslavia, at that time the borders were being drawn. And I went with it…careless, I was young, I went for a visit and I returned by train. And when I returned Yugoslavia had already been divided. We were entering the country, in fact it was that day that the borders were drawn and we were stopped, the train was stopped at the border. And I was traveling alone by train. And I was afraid about what was going to happen now. Meaning I wasn’t even thinking about the independence, because I was young, but I was thinking “why, now, do we need passports to pass the border?” However, that did not happen. That was a routine control, they asked for IDs, which was a little strange. In the compartment I was in, there were some other young people as well, as far as I remember. We were completely confused about what will happen now, how are we going to live now, because we were used to a different system. As foreign as the system may seem to someone, to the youth, we have lived in that system. And when we were younger we thought that the system was equal to everyone. Even though, it was not.
As the train arrived in Skopje, I couldn’t wait to get out of it because I felt disgusted about what was happening. We didn’t know.
As you know, there were wars in… later in Bosnia, in Kosovo, later it came to Skopje. Another conflict was going on between… inside the country, however it was there that I started to feel fear. We knew something was going to happen, although we were young. I’m talking about myself, and my friends and young family members.
The independence… we were a little confused, I’m talking about the youth. We were a little confused, what does it mean to go from a one-party system, to pluralism. What does pluralism mean? New parties were founded. Is it compulsory to become a member of a party? Do we have to vote? How should we vote? When it is known that in the previous system there was only one party, and it was known how things go. Whereas in the other system, in fact, we grew up in communism and afterwards for a second time we needed to learn to grow up and live in another system, as was the pluralist system, or as they call it, the democratic system. In which we know how much democracy there is, which we know how much democracy there is with all the circumstances that surround it. Meaning with all the events and all the other necessary things needed to achieve such a system, a so called system.
I remember… even though it was a long time ago, however I remember. I leave it to the youth. I remember when independence was celebrated by the known political faces back then. And it was interesting to us – “but now, how are we going to handle ourselves as a separate country, when we were part of a very big country?” And believe me that back then, whoever says that they have thought that it was going to be better, has not thought so. Because the majority were confused about what was going to happen later. Like when you break loose, when the youngster is separated from the mother. That is how we experienced Yugoslavia with its 6 republics and 2 autonomous provinces.
We already know what happened later on. We began to feel that the other ethnicities will have their own representatives in this country too, that is, we will be more represented and we will be, not just the Albanian ethnicity, that is the Albanian community, but the other ethnicities too.
Some things bothered us in the past… not only did they bother us, but the rights that we thought we had, in fact we did not have them, but had them halved. We, yes, we had school, we had education in Albanian language, however with different conditions such as… my mother was a teacher all her life. Now she is retired, she has been retired for 15 years. In the communist system she was punished with a conditional suspension sentence because she forgot to mark the box where…she was supposed to mark where the students were from. In her class there was a student that was born in Kosovo, and she had to mark whether it is a province, or a republic. And since she did not mark it, as it wasn’t a requirement before, they thought that she was implying that Kosovo is a republic. She overlooked this while she was preparing the final school reports. And luckily, I say luckily even though there wasn’t good luck in that, but luckily she was only punished with a conditional suspension sentence. Punishment with conditional suspension was a psychological torture. Furthermore, there were colleagues of hers that were sentenced to prison, and had to leave the country and for years they couldn’t even get close to Macedonia.
ER: Is this period after the independence?
DT: This is before the independence.
ER: Before the independence.
DT: Before, and a little after. These things have continued but in a different form, a little covered with statements that it is going to be a little different. There are many other memories from the independence, but for the moment being these are the ones that I recall with more clarity. The beginning of the independence. Afterwards, we know, that we had… we had a few parties, but they were small, they divided, and they divided by ethnicity. We, the Albanians were all PDP (The Party for Democratic Prosperity). The others were SDSM (Social Democratic Union of Macedonia)… there weren’t many other parties. Factually, it was legacy, I can say this freely, from the Albanian parties and the Macedonian and the others, a legacy of the communist system. They functioned the same as the communist system, however with the advantage of being able to say that “we now are an independent country, and that we will work a little different”. How things went onwards – we already know.
ER: How did you feel as a citizen of Macedonia in the period from its independence until the year 2001?
DT: In 2001, you mean when the conflict began?
ER: Yes. How did you live that time?
DT: At the beginning, getting used as I said. The oppressions or the pressures were on the citizens in general…they began, meaning they began to be on the basis of party affiliation since then. I remember that if you did not vote for a certain party you were a traitor of the nation or a traitor of the country, or it was a must to be, to side with a party so as to vote them, and to feel like a free citizen. Something I never did, because you can’t vote for someone that… yes, voting is a fundamental human right, yes. And you should vote, however it is not a must. Not voting is also a human right.
I remember that people acted like they gained strength if they belonged to a party, or if they sided with one, or if they liked one. This is from the political part, although politics had a lot of influence in the social life too.
I have always lived in Skopje. And in that period I remember that, when we went out in the city for a walk, people started to say that… the Macedonians started to say that it was a must to learn the Albanian language, because the Albanian language is the language of the future. “The Macedonian language… The Albanian language is the language of the future” (in Macedonian), that’s what they used to say. Somehow like they were predicting that “in the future we must speak Albanian, because the Albanians breed a lot and they will win over us, becoming the majority”.
There were Albanian high schools, only the gymnasium “Zef Lush Marku” was left. Afterwards with a few departments… with a few departments, slowly as the years passed, with departments at the school of medicine, a small department opened in GUC (High School for Construction), in other schools. Although I studied at the music school. There was no Albanian (language), we couldn’t study in Albanian language.
However, I have studied in Macedonian language, I have not had a problem, although I had at the first year of music school when I registered, the first day… it was the 1st of September, and they told me why have I come to this school, some of the girls that have never had contact with Albanians. For sure, I did not look like Albanian to them because that contact… look, the society has always been divided, although they say that before it didn’t use to be. It has always been divided. I know today Macedonians that do not cross the Stone Bridge to go to the Old Bazaar, because they are afraid. All their lives, 50, 60, 70 years, they have not passed that threshold, the Stone Bridge, on the other side of Vardar, because of an unexplained fear.
Then, too, it happened that the kids that have never had contacts with the other ethnicities to be afraid or to see with prejudices the students or friends from the other ethnicities. And to me, it happened for them to ask me “does your mother work somewhere? Because your mothers don’t work”, until the third year, the fourth, for an occasion they gathered and came to my place and saw that we live the same. We live the same, just like them, with small differences, tiny ones, with it that my parents received them very well, they sat with them, laid out dinner, did as is our hospitality. And I think that the moment of the language brought the conflict of 2001. They weren’t, it wasn’t the right, not that we couldn’t use the language but the moment that slowly-slowly they wanted to push the language out of use, not to speak now about official use, but slowly-slowly to push it out of use, not in schools, but from everyday use.
Look, until the year 2002, when Ramstore (shopping mall) was opened, if you remember, covered women from whichever ethnicity couldn’t sit in the center of the city, at the square in coffee places or restaurants. Not that someone kicked them out, but they weren’t welcomed. They were always seen with a different eye: “she doesn’t belong here and can’t sit here”, and did all they could to not sit there. Ramstore opened… and these are very essential things that I’m speaking about, because from these problems, result the other problems too. Ramstore opened, it was known that it was held by a Turk, and covered women went there freely, and sat down and opened their laptops – because I have seen it with my own eyes – took their phones, talked. Meaning there happened a transferring of, I would say, the economy. Because Muslim women began to massively go from this side to the other side of Vardar, and to spend their money on this side. Something that wasn’t clear to those working in the city center. Today, it is no longer like that. Even though it is more concentrated on the other side, although it has changed a lot, because they have already begun to know the power of the market.
Our society has never seen the power of the market. It has gone more, ever time, with the power of ethnicity, of language and of the rights of ethnicities. I think that here, current Albanian parties too, have made a mistake and continue to do so.
ER: What do you think, how were the conditions created in order for the war in 2001 to happen? I’m not talking about the technical preparations for war, but the social aspect.
DT: It is strange that even today I think that it isn’t very clear as to how exactly this happened. And I think that certain groups have decided to make a conflict, be that for the rights of someone, be that for the interests, the personal interests of someone, who later showed that they are like that.
I believe that in that conflict – I wouldn’t call it war although there were victims and all, but I wouldn’t call it – I believe to this day that in that conflict there were people that fought, that thought that for real fight for pure ideals. It is known always that the idealists are pure in their souls, although they are confused, they don’t know exactly what they fight for. They know, they think they know but they do not know that someone else is using their ideals to achieve another goal.
A big confusion was created back then between the citizens, and between both sides. We were scared, where I live the majority are Macedonians with a visible Albanian minority, I remember that some neighbors from a few streets away came and told us that we can find refuge at their place whenever we want, because something not good was being prepared for us. What was being prepared for us, I will tell you from experience, from the events that happened those days. That is, Ljuboten happened, we were very close to Ljuboten. We live in Radishani. And we could see them, the night when they evicted them from the village of Ljuboten, we could see them.
In fact, we didn’t know what was happenings exactly. Who is killing who? Why? We found out very fast, but we couldn’t know for sure. The common people can’t ever know who took the initiative, who shot first, who killed who, who is killing for what, or isn’t killed.
And some neighbors offered us to go at their place if something happens. What will happen, my dad asks them, “what will happen?” “Well, I feel bad”, he says, “to tell you, but two nights ago they were…”, a group of neighbors had gathered to set our house on fire. “Why would they set our house on fire?” “Well, you are Albanian.” “Well, why does it matter that we are Albanian, when we are here from ’76, we live with everyone, don’t have any problems, never had any.” “You haven’t had, but now it is war and now it should be that way and know that it is being prepared for you.” Someone had turned them back. And here began that feeling of unsafety, that you can’t be safe in your own house. I believe that from the other side, too, have felt that way because certainly also in other places of residence people have felt afraid that the Albanians will enter and will kill them and will set them on fire, and all. I am telling you what has happened to us.
ER: This was before or after… what happened in Ljuboten?
DT: This was while… while… two days after…
ER: After Ljuboten?
DT: Two days after Ljuboten. And this lasted a month and a half, two afterwards, how long did it last? I have also forgotten how long the conflict lasted in Macedonia.
The conflict in Macedonia didn’t bring good things. It didn’t solve anything. The division in society is the same. We love each-other -we shouldn’t love each-other, we should respect the each-other. We respect each-other mostly in a declarative way, because that is how the foreigners have taught us. The divisions exists, they are century-long, not from now. And I always say that when you scratch the surface a little you will see whether the Albanians with teeth will come out, or the Serbian with the horns, or the Macedonian with the rifle, or something. It always exists… that risk of distrust. Or that distrust exists… on a very high level exists the distrust between the ethnicities in Macedonia.
I don’t think that it has brought a big change. I think that the protectors, or the “Braniteli” (Macedonian) as they were called – that I used to say to them “you are going for two euros. They will take your life for what? For two euros”. A bullet costs two euros. “You will lose your life for two euros”.
On the other side, the fighters of NLA (National Liberation Army), the fighters that went as sacrifice, they ended up without any status in the country. It is known who took the political appointments and who took the positions and who is left to this day in the highest positions using the names of the fighters in that conflict.
ER: How did you experience the war or the conflict of 2001? Where were you? How was it to live during that time?
DT: I lived in Radishani then. Radishani is a neighborhood in Skopje, at the periphery. It’s very close to the village of Ljuboten, a few kilometers. And, as I said earlier, we lived there, we still live, in a majority of ethnic Macedonians. We live a normal life… like everyone else.
At that moment, after the events in Ljuboten, after the eviction of the citizens of Ljuboten and the killings, I had an incident with a family member of a very close neighbor, with whom we live practically five meters away. A family member had come from the villages of Kumanovo, and was inviting me outside to watch “the terrorists”. He said to me “come to watch the terrorists how they run”. And with disgust I looked at him how he can say to me “the terrorists” when he knows, when we know that they were evicted. And I tell them that they are not terrorists, they are the villagers that are being evicted. And we were watching them, from the mountain, we watched like that, we watched all night, we couldn’t go and help them.
In the first days, immediately after the events in Ljuboten at the passing point… the police forces had made a passing point from Radishani to Butel, to Butel, factually where Butel begins, to go in the city, in the center of the city. A police checkpoint in which one should, those that went to work or traveled, they, the police patrolled night and day. And you couldn’t pass if they do not stop to identify you, factually to show them your identification documents.
Back then, my daughter was very little, one year old, she turned 1 on June 2nd of 2001, and I didn’t circulate a lot towards Skopje. However, my brother went to work every morning and came back from work through the same road. And he was stopped twice per day by the police. And of course, when he showed them the ID and the driver’s license, by the name and surname they knew that he was Albanian. And he had daily portions of swear words, declarative sexual abuses, of course, towards the sister, the mother. They knew also if he had a sister, a mother, a wife. Meaning they told him that by name. Although he was never involved neither in the conflict nor in… with tendencies to… to announce that slowly, slowly you there too, we’ll evict you from there too.
Something that never happened. There were attempts. There were attempts later also, however they were just superficial.
Five days after the events in Ljuboten, they came and took me away from home because they were afraid because I am all day alone with my little girl, with my baby at home. For something not to happen to me. And they took me to Prishtina.
ER: Who?
DT: My father-in-law and my late husband. And I did not want to go because my place was Skopje. I was born in Skopje, I have lived in Skopje. I thought that if I go there I will get lost, I will never come back again. However, they were convincing me that it will not be like that, come just a little bit until this passes, not to get upset. And in a big hurry. And we went to Prishtina, we came back after a month and a half. I couldn’t wait to come back home. To continue with my life at home. I wanted to start working, to continue with my work because my maternity leave was over.
And when I came back home, the neighbors looked me a little like, they couldn’t dare to ask me… they couldn’t gather the courage, not that they didn’t dare. They couldn’t gather the courage to ask me where I was during this month, why did I disappear? While always I have been missing only when I have gone on vacation, otherwise no. But they didn’t gather the courage, but they looked at me a little different. “She is also a terrorist!” One even said to me “terroristkata otisla” (in Macedonian) [the terrorist has left]. With the fact that you have left, you are already a terrorist. And the second day after I came back I put my daughter in the stroller and I took a step to go to the market, to the shopping center that is in the neighborhood. To go and buy milk and stuff for daily needs, however I went more so that they see that I have come.
That was to mark my presence at my place. Because this is my place. Some gathered the courage to greet me, some looked at me a little confused. And day by day that way and it ended, it got back to… as it was before. With it that some didn’t want to serve me, but I also didn’t go there anymore. While some others were very friendly and continued with the friendship because as I said we have lived always there.
That is how that post-conflict part passed. Afterwards I got employed. And I needed to get employed with the intervention of a certain party, at the Macedonian State Television. And then I didn’t know, because I had the diploma for the job there and thought that that is how I should go to work. No, apparently we needed to intervene… I told them, I am not in a party, how? Well okay, join the party. I can’t. Okay, we will intervene. And I became, I got employed with the intervention of the party in which I am not a member of, I have no sympathies for, I do not… absolutely do not… and that is how I got employed. That is how employments were then, and it has stayed like that to this day. This was a very small part from the experiences after the conflict.
ER: Let’s get back shortly at the end of the conflict. What did the Ohrid Framework Agreement represent for you at the time when it was signed?
DT: When the Ohrid Framework Agreement was signed… we had a big hope when the party appeared, that is now, now and how many years in power, The Democratic Union for Integration. So much that we were, we were so confused about what is happening from the conflict, who were these people? A person appeared, had white hair back then, Ali Ahmeti. We had a little hope, I think that society had a little hope that this person… and the name of the party was pretty. To this day is has the prettiest name, best chosen from all parties. Doesn’t have Albanians [mentioned] there, doesn’t have anything but Democratic Union for Integrity [Integration]. Meaning to integrate in society, to integrate, that is taken in Europe. They opened, they opened those voting places also in municipalities in Macedonia where there are Macedonians, they brought closer, offered Macedonians too. And we thought that a new different democratic wind was coming among us.
The Ohrid Agreement by itself, I think, has brought more damage to the Albanian society in general, in essence. As we know, in the past you couldn’t quite, they couldn’t quite in general to register the children. I take the example with the faculties, with the registration in the faculties. Albanians could rarely enroll at faculties because of being Albanian. Simple. That is why they went to Zagreb, they studied in Zagreb, they studied in Prishtina, and at the end when it opened, when the borders with Albania opened, in Tirana. And the intention of the Ohrid Agreement was to make it easier and bring advancement to the Albanian student. To be able to learn, to be able to learn also in Albanian language however also by the key or the quotas to be able to be accepted at the faculty, at the University St. Cyril and Methodius. This is just a, this is just a smokescreen of what happened later. Meaning you can apply there based on the number, while in a free society you should fight so that everyone has the same rights to apply, to enroll, to live, to eat, to work and everything, in an equal way. Not based on the number of the ethnicity, the number of the residents of the ethnicities that you belong to. And this bothers me.
And it bothers me that Skopje got divided in two parts. This is also one of the consequences of the Ohrid Agreement. To this day Skopje is divided in two parts. And it was done by, it was divided by those that signed the Ohrid Agreement. The Ohrid Agreement on the surface can, looks like it has brought something good, but it hasn’t brought anything good. There is no progress. Those students that prefer to study in their native language can also study in another language, and can be equally successful as in their native language.
The faculties opened. As we known, the University of Tetovo opened, others opened too, the quality of which is questionable, because we know that to this day the University of Tetovo still doesn’t function as it should. They still study in houses. They still don’t have the professors, the lecturers aren’t regular. Afterwards the branch in Skopje opened, they still don’t have the professors, the professors don’t go to work for weeks, months at a time, but still require results. And so with the Ohrid Agreement, according to me, it was created, a generation of half-illiterates was created. That’s it.
ER: What kind of changes do you feel that happened after the war? I’m talking about the discrimination and also the inter-ethnic relations, but also for the behavior of the state institutions.
DT: Yes, and this is connected with what I said until now. Meaning the state institutions are overfilled. If we talk now whether there are Albanians in state institutions – yes, they are full, overfilled.
They have, they have it as an obligation, or they are allowed to, and they have the possibility to use the Albanian language in their institutions, however they do not use it. And for this I do not have a written proof; however I have declarative proof from workers that work there. For example in the City of Skopje it is used very little. It is used then, where there is a need. An institution such as The Ministry for Informatics and Public Administration [Ministry of Information Society and Administration] – there the Albanian language doesn’t function at all. If you open the sites on the internet, the websites of the ministries, you will see how these institutions function, with the given languages. Meaning, if there is a minister with Albanian language, for the months the minister is there, that many months the language is used, at a minimum and with very low quality. And the moment that ministers from that ethnicity leave, that website no longer functions, meaning the communication with the citizens in their native language doesn’t function. It can function while they are there, however after they leave, it’s lost.
In the state institutions, the employment, it is known, is with party membership-cards, for someone’s sake, through party contacts… I say again, not through acquaintances, for family’s sake but with… as compensation because you have voted for me, and I will employ you.
In a state institution such as, for example, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, they have employed many Albanians who work at the counters, who have been practically dragged from their beds, they don’t know anything, but they work at the counters and have to serve the citizens. And he doesn’t know to serve you because he doesn’t know what he’s doing there. And this is how it is in many other institutions, the situation is similar.
ER: How do you see the ethnic division in the country now?
DT: In which sense?
ER: Do you feel that there is interethnic division?
DT: There is. There is.
ER: How does it manifest, how do we see it now?
DT: It manifests, again with the parties I will say. Look, if we want a free society here, a democratic one, we take one case: in local elections, meaning for mayors. If we take a Macedonian and we make him mayor of a municipality with an Albanian or Turkish majority, or whichever not of his ethnicity, and one of another ethnicity in a municipality with a Macedonian majority, then I am more than certain that municipality will begin to function. Because he is not of that party, because he doesn’t work for a party, and doesn’t have a choice but to work for the municipality which he will lead during his mandate. And here the Macedonian parties, such as SDSM for the moment – because I do not know if VMRO has any Albanians, I am not informed if they have Albanian members – however SDSM has… however those representatives are there just for appearance, meaning representatives which are just called Albanian however don’t represent you in a way, in a way that it advances the moment of the governing as they say, the minority ethnicity, although I do not agree with minority ethnicities, but it can be community. They do not work for advancement in the party but they work for their own interest or the interests of the party, in fact. Always.
As long as the Albanian parties always refer to the rights of the Albanians and not to the rights of all citizens. In their campaigns they always speak about the rights of the Albanians and not to the rights of all citizens. Something that the Macedonians resent, because according to statements, I do not know if it would be that way, according to their statements, if they would speak about the rights of all citizens then there would be Macedonians, too, in Albanian parties…
ER: Today, how do you see the future of Macedonia? Having in mind the functioning of the political elites but also the citizen’s activism and in general the citizens’ awareness.
DT: I think that the citizens have become very aware. The awareness has… it has reached its maximum, to the extent that I think from that awareness comes a great disappointment. And the disappointment comes, it is known, when there are a lot of expectations. Meaning until lately they have had expectations, however now they no longer have other expectations. Expectations, certain expectations, because they have already learned that the promises are just pre-election promises. Everything here is connected to elections, to elections, it is known. Everything is in the context of elections, because every, on average, every two years we have elections. And people are tired from the elections and from the prejudices and the judgements of people because they see you differently based on who you will vote for or you won’t vote for.
There is division, for sure. However the awareness is higher. As an observer… I am an observer of the social networks for years, I see it as a phenomenon. The moment of, the moment of knowing of societies, of the two biggest societies, the biggest communities in Macedonia, the Albanians and Macedonians happened precisely on social networks. Because they would never talk to one another on the streets the way they talk here. The Albanians gathered the courage to talk, to comment, to express their opinions, their attitudes in front of the Macedonian ethnicity which, as it is known, is the majority. And the Macedonians also gathered the courage, but also the will to converse and to communicate through the networks, although they don’t know one another, which is a phenomenon in itself. As it is known now all campaigns, too, are done through the social networks. Where else would they meet, all those Albanians and Macedonians, or also Roma and Turks etc. except through the social networks? And here a revolution happened. In which everyone can express their opinions freely. And here, getting to know one another on a new level happened, in the sense of culture, awareness and the process of raising awareness. Meaning the people began to learn how to express themselves too. However, there is also another moment, where the expression is much easier online, meaning on the social networks, than going out on the streets and expressing your opinion, your attitude or your protest, as it happened a few years ago against the regime of the previous government.
The divisions exist, although the communication is in a much higher level than it has been. I am not talking about the quality but the level of, the level of the quantity of communication, meaning that it is on a higher level, on a much higher scale the people are getting to know one another. They know one another. Meaning previously he didn’t want to know you, or didn’t want you to know him – today they know one another, today people have begun to realize that he has his attitude the same as I have mine. You can, you can oppose it but you can’t forbid anyone. And in this way I think that there is communication and that it will continue. I think that it goes that way. I think, it’s not negative, it’s going on a positive scale.
ER: Thank you, Diana. If there is anything that you would want to say, and that I didn’t ask you and you didn’t have the chance, you can do so freely now. If not, I thank you once again and I am very glad that we had the opportunity to talk about this.
DT: Thank you, too. I’m not sure how much I manage to approach that moment. Your project is Dealing with the Past, right?
ER: Yes.
DT: I think that dealing with the past, this I will say for the end, dealing with the past firstly should be done in the way that you deal with those… with all the moments in yourself, with your people, and then deal with the good and the bad of that done by the people that you belong to, so that later you can deal with the good and the crimes of another people towards you. So that afterwards you can ask from those people to deal with themselves, with their crimes and with your crimes towards them. That’s all.
ER: Thank you very much.
DT: Thank you too.